Yes, Earth will cross the galactic equator in 2012. As seen from the sun, the Earth does this every year – twice. However, the Earth won’t be physically passing through the plane of the Milky Way galaxy anytime in the near future.
Here’s some background. The galactic equator is an imaginary great circle that divides the equally imaginary celestial sphere into two equal halves. The celestial sphere is – of course – a fiction. It’s the same fiction that so confounded the early stargazers, that, as seen from Earth, we appear to reside in the center of a great globe of stars. In modern times, the fiction of the geocentric view of the universe enables astronomers to use a workable coordinate system for mapping the sky.
Now let’s define some terms. When someone says galactic equator, they’re usually talking about the coordinate system of astronomers. On this coordinate system, modern astronomers tweak things a bit, to devise a sun-centered way of mapping the Milky Way galaxy. On the other hand, when someone says galactic plane they are most often referring to the real Milky Way galaxy spinning in space. The galactic plane is the actual mid-plane – the flat part – of our galaxy’s huge spinning disk of stars.
What’s tricky is that – when you look at the starry sky at night as seen from Earth – the galactic equator closely follows the plane of the Milky Way galaxy. Of course it does, because we’re talking about the real Milky Way in our sky.
As seen from the sun, the Earth crosses the galactic equator twice a year, every year. Nothing special here. Keep moving.
As seen from Earth, the sun crosses the galactic equator twice a year, every year. Keep moving.
As seen from Earth, the moon crosses the galactic equator two (sometimes three) times a month. Are you seeing the pattern here? All of this crossing of the galactic equator is just part of the heavens’ normal motion, really Earth’s normal motion as projected on our sky’s dome as we travel around the sun.
Back to 2012. There’s been much hoopla about the winter solstice sun aligning with galactic plane on December 21, 2012. You, however, now know the reality that, as seen from Earth, the sun crosses the galactic equator twice a year. And the galactic equator on our sky’s imaginary astronomical coordinate system more or less corresponds with the plane of the Milky Way galaxy. So, in this sense, the sun crosses the plane of the Milky Way twice a year (as seen from Earth).
Quite by coincidence, the great circle of the ecliptic – the projection of the Earth’s orbital plane onto the celestial sphere – intersects the galactic equator near the solstice points. According to the computational wizard Jean Meeus*, the solstice points were in alignment with the galactic equator as recently as the year 1998 – in other words, they were closer on the sky’s dome then. But in 2011 and 2012, these points – the solstice point, and the point where the sun crosses the galactic equator – are near each other on our sky’s dome.
It’s true that the sun on the December solstice doesn’t return to the same exact spot in front of the backdrop stars every year. The solstice point slowly but surely moves westward through the stars at about one degree per every 72 years. (For reference, the sun’s diameter equals about 1/2 degree.)
Therefore, the solstice point moves about 30 degrees westward every 2,160 years. By the year 2269, the December solstice point will cross into the constellation Ophiuchus. Then the solstices won’t happen so near the location of the galactic equator in our sky.
Take a look at our sky chart. If you could see the stars during the daytime, you’d see the sun in front of the constellation Sagittarius on each December 21 solstice. We show Sagittarius as a Teapot on this sky chart, because many people are able to see that pattern. On or near each December solstice, the sun crosses the galactic equator above the spout of the Teapot, a bit north of the galactic center. Can you see that intersection? If you were standing under the real sky on a dark, moonless night, you could see the great boulevard of stars that we call the Milky Way running astride the galactic equator.
Scientific studies indicate that the solar system lies several dozen light-years north of the galactic plane. What’s more, we are continuing to travel northward, away from the plane of our Milky Way galaxy, at some 7 kilometers per second. Therefore, we won’t be physically passing through the galactic plane in 2012 or anytime in the near future.
Where is the ecliptic in relation to the Milky Way?
*page 301-303 of Mathematical Astronomy Morsels
I think this “2012″ hypothesis is another example of the human brain trying to make order out of chaos- we can’t help but look for some kind of pattern in all the “noise” of the cosmos-
I think either we will end our existence by our own stupidity/ignorance, or an outside force will decide our fate for us. If it happens to be on Dec. 21, 2012, it would be the ultimate coincidence, or “art” imitating life….
This article talks about the apparent view of the solstice points from the earth or from the sun etc. This is not relevant to what is being said about the 2012 period. What i have been told is that the cycle being described by the Mayan long-count relates to the Solar system as an object relative to the disk of the galaxy. The idea is that our solar system is moving in orbit around the galactic center in such a way that it wobbles up and down through the plane of the galactic disk every (whatever) number of years.
The apparent view from this or that location is not a relevent aspect of the discussion.
Hi Steve.
Yes, I concur with you. As the sun orbits the galactic center in an estimated 230 million years, the sun (and solar sytem) bob up then down through the galactic plane in periods of roughly 35 million years. From the accounts that I have read, the solar system now lies several dozen light-years north of the galactic plane. (To see scientific abstracts that give various estimates for the sun’s distance from the galactic plane, do a Google search, typing in: sun, distance from galactic plane.) It’s my understanding that the sun is moving away from the galactic plane at some 7 kilometers per second, and won’t start its descent toward the plane of our Milky Way galaxy for millions of years to come.
Bruce
The earth passes through the galactic plane every 13,500+ years with a complete cycle every 27,000+ years. This explains the extinctions 13,000 years ago. Mammoths flash frozen with butter cups in their stomachs. We should see a pole shift and a meteor storm as we pass. The 5th world begins on 12/22/2012. Good luck. You’re going to need it.
Arrgy,
As seen from Earth, the sun appears to align with the galactic plane twice a year every year. In periods of about 13,000 years, it’s the solstice points in particular that align with the galactic plane. Around 6,500 and 19,500 years from now, it’ll be the equinox points that align with the galactic plane. But the Earth DOES NOT physically pass through the plane of the Milky Way galaxy every 13,000 years. We’re talking about the 26,000-year precession cycle of the equinox and solstice points going westward in front of the constellations of the Zodiac.
Go outside with a Hula-Hoop sometime. Put your head in the middle of this Hula-Hopp, tilting it at about a 60-degree angle relative to your horizon. You’ll notice that two points on the Hula-Hoop appear to align with the horizon, even though the Hula-Hoop DOES NOT physically pass through the horizon. The Hula-Hoop represents the Earth’s orbital plane, the horizon depicts the galactic plane and your head simulates the position of the sun. The points of alignment between the Hula-Hoop and the horizon are analogous to the present-day solstice points. In about 6,550 years, it’ll be the equinox points.
Bruce
G’day Bruce,
Aside from crossing the galactic plane, planetary alignments, crossing the great dark serpent of destruction and terror mentioned in the ancient prophecies, i.e,(The galactic plane of the universe), The Mayan calender cycling, the biblical references of the bible, the tidal solar flares,or DNA shift, Poles swap predicted by our scientists, A global conscious awakening, or possible reversal in Earth’s rotation. What is your perspective of the whole thing? What are you predicting? Nothing?, The continuance of anarchy without global or universal consequence?. I mean think about it. Everything in the universe has a cycle of time involved does it not?, Why would the orbital path, planetary environment or cycled stages of change in evolution, be any different? The end and beginning of cycle happens in but a moment. It will have a gain in speed as it starts, but is also gaining speed towards the end of the cycle as well. So, How do you define a line of evolution? By a definitive change or sudden event Right?
Am I wrong? ~ Just curious.. Cheers
All that we are is the result of what we have thought. ~Buddha~
We believe that an informed citizenry will act for life and not for death.~Albert Einstein~
The individual must not merely wait and criticize, he must defend the cause the best he can. The fate of the world will be such as the world deserves.~Albert Einstein~
~ The intelligence we gain within the journey allows us to find our self, and experience other perspectives. This allowing us to think smoothly and balance the load of life’s baggage, changing the way we perceive situations. Through our perspectives we can adjust our attitude, This by realizing that Negativity begets negativity. yet, a positive attitude can change the status quo. We can ultimately change our perspective to one of understanding, compassion and peace.
~ The path before you should always be enjoyed while your on it. When you have finished this one and begin another, You can look back on the good times you had in your future memories. ~Bret Varcados 2010~
Have a great day..=o)
Greetings Bret.
Wow, there’s quite a plateful here!
“What is my perspective?” I think enough mystery and myth surround the multi-faceted 2012 hypothesis to serve as a cosmic Rorschach test.
“What am I predicting?” I predict that there will be a December 22, 2012, and that Earth will continue to turn (in the same direction) on its orbital axis. I am hoping that our species will become more appreciative of our planet Earth and our fellow inhabitants on the globe.
“There is enough for everybody’s need, but not for everybody’s greed.” – Mohandas Ghandi
“I laugh at what you call dissolution, and I know the amplitude of time.” – Walt Whitman
You have a great day, too!
Bruce
Stupid. there will be no end you crazy fools it is just a end to a calender LOL
oh, and we MIGHT go extinct in 50 billion years. 2012 is not 50billion years from now.
NOYB,
Yes, it seems that some people think the end of the Mayan Baktun cycle on the winter solstice, 2012, spells out doomsday for our planet. I’m not so sure this is what the Mayan had in mind. The end point of the Baktun cycle is akin to the odometer of a car turning over and displaying a line of zeros. However, the sun is expected to swell into a red giant in about 5 billion years, and that will probably mean real doomsday for the planet.
As a reminder, EarthSky encourages civil dialogue, and does not tolerate name-calling. We all have something to gain from respectful conversation.
Bruce
So is what I’m hearing from some of you know it alls, is that the Earth never changes. It just stays the same for Billions of years until we get too close to the sun. How do you explain previous disasters? Just another conspiracy theory, huh. We are actually not on the verge of another ice age. Hell, according to alot of you, we never have been in an ice age, the Earth just stays perfect for billions of years with no immediate changes. Humm..
I don’t know about you, but I was told that when my car’s odometer flips over and reaches zero, it’ll explode.
what happened to the Neanderthals to the dinosaur and the deserts once where green belts…. what happens up in the sky………where it ends……..how many stars……..what is a cell man made of …..how the cell grow ……what is energy…..No answer…… believe in our ignorance….before we claim our credibilities…….!!!!
Are their gravitational forces responsible for our solar system bobbing ‘up then down through the galactic plane in periods of roughly 35 million years’ ? Can dark matter encourage or reduce this bobbing effect?
Bruce,
I don’t really know what forces are at work to make our solar system pass through the galactic plane every 35 or so million years. Try submitting your question to an astronomer at Cornell University at http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/.
Goood luck!
Bruce
From what I understand, the cause of us bobbing up and down like that is because the galactic plane actually has a gravitational pull on our solar system. Scientists believe that this is because the center of the galaxy (The theoretical supermassive black hole) is spinning so fast that it actually warps its gravitational pull into a flat disc shape, which is why the greatest amount of junk, matter, stars and “dust” collects in such a way that it gives our galaxy the disc shape in the first place. Everytime we cross it, we have momentum from our previous “fall” (if it is possible to really “fall” in outer space) that takes us a ways away from the center, then as its pull is exerted on us again over time, we “fall” back down through it again and so on and so forth.
This article really explains nothing at all that has to do with us passing through the galactic plane. If our solar system passed through the center of the galaxy EXACTLY twice every EARTH YEAR it would be a huge coincidence and one that would be sure to convince everyone to believe in at least SOME kind of god. Of course, we’d also probably be bombarded by meteors and have so many run-ins with asteroids that this planet would most likely be uninhabitable due to us practically living in the most cluttered part of the galaxy.
I am looking for an interactive model of our solar and galactic system in 3D. One that can be looked at from all angles with time shifts and movement that correlates to times and dates. I want to see not just the distances and positions of planets in regards to the sun and each other on a flat plane but all the planes and intersections. I need something with depth. I hope I explained this right. Can’t seem to find one online on my own.
Silverthaw,
For starters, try your luck with the ‘Where is M13′ software at http://www.thinkastronomy.com/M13/index.html. For some perspective on the size of our Milky Way galaxy, consider this: if we shrunk the solar system out to the orbit of Pluto to the size of a quarter, the Milky Way would be the size of North America.
Bruce
Some one in the bog said that (according to some astronomers) the solar system and sun is now several dozen light years away from the galactic plane and still moving away from it. Others have claimed some astronomers have said that the sun and solar system began passing thru the galactic plane in 1998, peaked in about 2007 and will be done passing thru it by 2016. Can you comment on this? Do you know where this second account may be coming from and what it might be referring to?
Jennifer,
All scientific abstracts with which I am familiar claim the solar system is north of the galactic plane. Furthermore, the solar system will continue to travel north of the galactic plane for millions of years to come.
According to the computational wizard, Jean Meeus, the solstice points were in alignment with the galactic equator (plane) in 1998. However, since the sun is a disk and not a point, I suppose you could say that a portion of the December solstice sun will align with the galactic equator (plane) for a period of about 36 years, centered on 1998. That represents the period from about 1980-2016.
When speaking of the December solstice sun aligning with the galactic equator (plane), we’re talking about the position of the sun relative to the background stars, as seen from Earth. That does not mean that we physically pass through the galactic plane each year on the December solstice.
The plane of Earth’s orbit around the sun is inclined by about 60 degrees to the plane of the galactic equator. Go outside sometime with a Hula-Hoop. Stick your head through the middle of this Hula-Hoop and tilt it about 60 degrees to your horizon. Your head represents the sun and the Hula-Hoop represents the Earth’s orbit. The landscape you are standing on all the way to the horizon depicts the galactic plane. Note that the Hula-Hoop appears to cross the horizon at two points. These two points are analogous to the solstice points aligning with the galactic equator (plane). Of course, the Hula-Hoop isn’t physically passing through the horizon at these two points of alignment. Similarly, the Earth isn’t physically passing through the galactic plane on the solstices.
Bruce
I meant to say “blog” but perhaps “bog” can be the new name for all the confusion bogging down the facts surrounding the 2012 “event.” (Astronomers, Mayan calendars, ancient oracles, and prophetic hacks the world over have got the cataclysmic date all wrong: it is 2010, the year Oprah Winfrey is ending her show.) For those of you with SGDS [sarcastic gene deficiency syndrome]: JUST KIDDING!
I meant 2011. (If only others were as good as me at constantly reporting their own inaccuracies what a world it would be.)
SGDS people: just ignore the comment.
I’m a skeptical mystic, here are few important points:
The moment of sunrise was very important to ‘the ancients’ very real mystical reasons.
On 12/21/2012 @ 11:11AM GMT the Sun will cross the winter solstice point precisely *at sunrise* as viewed from Mesoamerica.
Astronomers say the Winter Solstice point crossed the galactic equator in 1998 but they admit that there is a slight margin of error on the galactic scale. It is possible that the Mayans knew the rising Sun will align with Winter Solstice *and* the Galactic Equator on 12/21/2012.
There is indeed *one* ancient specific reference to the date 12.21.2012, it is on a stone in Mesoamerica, Tortuguero Monument 6.
The Mayan Tzolk’in calendar does not end in 2012, it is only the beginning of the next cycle but one stone does in fact say ‘something’ will happen.
Unfortunately, the word on the monument that describes exactly what will happen is effaced.
From David Stuart’s recent decipherment of Tortuguero Monument 6 for the UT Mesoamerican Google group:
As promised here’s a quick translation of the final passage* of
Tortuguero Monument 6, recording the 2012 Bak’tun ending:
Tzuhtz-(a)j-oom u(y)-uxlajuun pik
(ta) Chan Ajaw ux(-te’) Uniiw.
Uht-oom ?
Y-em(al)?? Bolon Yookte’ K’uh ta ?.
“The Thirteenth ‘Bak’tun” will be finished
(on) Four Ajaw, the Third of Uniiw (K’ank’in). (12.21.2012)
? will occur. (indecipherable)
(It will be) the descent(??) of the Nine Support? God(s) to the ?.”
All new-age woo-woo aside there is an authentic, albeit vague, prophecy.
Hi Mr. Middle,
The Mayan prophecy – if, indeed, there is one – might be vague. But there’s nothing vague about the statement that “On 12/21/2012 @ 11:11AM GMT the Sun will cross the winter solstice point precisely at sunrise as viewed from Mesoamerica.” Are you suggesting that the Mayans predicted the time of the northern hemisphere’s 2012 winter solstice to the minute? Looking up “Mesoamerica” in the Random House Websters’s Unabridged Dictionary (second edition), I find this as the first definition: the area extending approximately from central Mexico to Honduras and Nicaragua in which diverse pre-Columbian civilizations flourished. As far as I can tell, the sun will still be below the horizon in Mesoamerica at precisely 11:11AM Universal Time on 12/21/2012.
Bruce
you were saying “…the sun will still be below the horizon in Mesoamerica at precisely 11:11AM Universal Time on 12/21/2012″. Well, the sunrise at that date for guatemala, mesoamerica is still an odd number : 12:22pm utc.
The Maya never came up with a wheel, but we think they can predict the end of the world…….
So if theres all this evidence that the world will not end in 2012, which upon i believe in, why do people put videos on Youtube.com saying we will die with catastrophic events e.g. Weather, Planet-X, Oracles and etc.. Where they getting there evidence from? and is it true? because i’m on the border line sort of about this whole hypothesis.
James
BassHero,
Although I take it for granted that 1+1=2, the mathematicians Alfred North Whitehead and Bertrand Russell came up with an elaborate proof of the fact in their book Principia Mathematica. In like vein, I’m taking it for granted that our planet Earth will be around not only tomorrow, but on and after December 21, 2012, because I haven’t yet seen what I consider to be any credible evidence to the contrary.
Bruce
thanks for that , needed some clarification on a theory ta.
This is from an article on http://www.angelicscorn.co.uk/
When it comes to space, our knowledge is very limited and we are only discovering things today that the ancients already knew thousands of years ago. The reason why we know so little is because modern humans only started to explore space recently and space is very very big.
When it comes to 2012 and space, the range of opinions, ideas and theories become even more various. The underling reason for this is because our knowledge about space it self is very limited. When one look at the 2012 theories there are 6 main view points that is generally theorized about, namely planet X, the galactic plane, meteor strikes, extinction, sun flares and Alien visitors.
Planet X
One of the 2012 theories is that an unknown planet will crash into earth in 2012. In today’s modern world we have multi billion dollar telescopes in space, million dollar ground base telescopes on earth and millions of private telescopes looking at the night sky and non of them has seen planet X.
Meteor strike
There are millions of meteors, asteroids and comets in space and some day one of them will strike earth, in fact thousands of little meteors and asteroids strikes earth everyday. There is however no big asteroid, meteor or comet on its way to earth at this point in time. The reason why we can say this is because there are millions of eyes looking up in to space everyday and no one has see one on it way to earth. A big meteor, asteroid or comet impact could wipe thousands of species out on earth but that will not happen in 2012 but it will happen someday in the future.
Alien Visitors
This is a very popular theory, but we have no conclusive prove to support this theory, but it is definitely a theory that needs a good look at. Most of the religions on earth believe in the return or the coming of a supreme being from the heavens. Many of the ancient cultures had knowledge we are only discovering today. There is a tribe in Africa whom worships a planet which circles the star Vega. They say a visitor from that planet visited them and taught them, they even have a festival based on this planet new year. To make things worse that planet does exist and their festival is based exactly on the planets year.
Sun flare
Mankind has observed solar activity sins 1612 when sun spots where first discovered by modern man. Over this period we have observed that massive solar storm are preceded by quite periods, we have also observed that global cooling that’s place during quite periods. We have also observed that the solar activity runs in 11 year cycles. We have also experienced what large solar storms can do to us on the ground. In 1859 almost all the electronic equipment on earth was destroyed by a massive solar storm, a few years back a smaller solar storm took out Quebec’s power grid. To make things even worse we have also discovered that the earth magnetos sphere, which protects us from solar storms are weakening. The reason for that is that over thousands of years the earth’s magnetic poles switch. Evidence for this has been found in lava flows, ice cores and earth deposits. Just before the magnetos sphere switches around the magnetos sphere weakens. At this moment in time earth’s magnetos sphere has a ‘hole’ in it. This ‘hole’ is located between South Africa and South America and its growing. The term ‘hole’ however is incorrect. This area between South Africa and South America is where the magnetic field is flowing from south to north instead of from north to south like on the rest of the planet. This means that any solar storm today will have more effect on us the in the past.
The sun has been very quite over the last few years which according to our nearly 400years of experience mean that the sun is preparing for a massive solar storm predicted to occur in 2012, the end of the next 11year cycle. There is however a part of the puzzle that does not fit. In the past 400years fewer sun spots meant global cooling, jet all the ice sheets on the planet is melting and infrared scans says that the entire solar system is heating up. Either all our 400year old data is wrong or something else is coming into play this time around.
Extinction
Extinctions have been part of life on this planet since it started to form about 1 billion years ago. This article is not going to discuss extinctions it self but when it happened in relation to a Galactic year. The image below shows the following; ever 250million years there is a massive extinction. Our solar system takes 250million years to complete one Galactic year. Every halve galactic year there is a small extinction and ever quarter galactic year life seems to blossom, excluding for the meteor impact 75 million years ago which killed off the Dinosaurs. There is a small possibility that on the 21st of December 2012 that we will complete our third Galactic year and we will be at the same area in space where the 2 biggest extinction events the planet has ever known, have taken place.
The Galactic Plane
There are four main stream views on the Galactic plane, we will have an over view on all four of these main stream views pointing out their faults and plus points.
The newest view point is that the solar system will not be crossing the galactic plane in 2012 or anytime in the near future. This conclusion was draw after counting the stars divided in to grids, but some of the stars were not counted and only stars of a certain class was counted. That brings up the question: Can we really believe information that has excluded some information in its calculations to be true?
Another view point is illustrated by the image below. According to this view point the earth aligns with the Galactic plane twice a year. This view point however is completely wrong, because our solar system is moving west in other words we are moving up on this illustration and we are not circling the Galaxy on the path as illustrated on that image. Another conclusion that was drawn from this illustration was that the center of the Galaxy always pulls on our solar system at the same strength as we orbit the Galaxy. This is also wrong. The Milky Way does not have one black hole at the center but several which are aligned in a straight line forming a bar. To view a photo of the Milky Way and other galaxies click here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lATU1TbKaEM
The image below shows the Milky Way. On this image it is very clear that the points on the central bar is pulling stars in while no stars are entering the center, there for the gravity at the end off the bar is stronger and we will experience a greater gravitational pull on our solar system when passing these points.
Another theory is illustrated by the image below. This theory says that the solar system is wobbling its way around the solar system. This theory states that this wobble takes about 65million years according to some or 88million years according to others. This wobbling is also used to explain why there is an extinction event every 65million years and also answers the question why we are moving west at this point in time. There is however three questions this theory has to answer. Since the stars are spread apart form each other by billions of miles of space and space it self has no gratify how can we be pulled towards an empty section of space? They answered this question by saying that it is the red giant stars that pulls us back. If this is true it means that one of these stars will have a greater effect then the others, and since this has been happening over 4.5 billion years, where is this red giant we are being pulled towards? As jet there is no answer. If this theory is correct, why is it so difficult to determent where the galactic plane is if we could just measure the solar systems acceleration and deceleration to determent our position in respect to Galactic plane? As jet there is no answer.
At the moment until the above theory is proven beyond any doubt the image below are the most accurate illustration of our solar systems path around the Milky Way if we take current proven knowledge in account.
In Conclusion.
According to the ancients and scientists from the 1960’s we will be passing the galactic plane at the 21st of December 2012, and until scientists can use a different method to the reduction method, which discounts some of the information, are found to prove differently we will be passing thou the Galactic plane on the 21st of December 2012.
This on it self however does not prove to be a problem on its own; the problem will occur ones we line up with our galaxy’s central elongated beam.
The fact that the two biggest extinction events took place in our current time period, the escalating seismic activity on the planet, the heating of the solar system during a period where cooling was suppose to take place, should all serve as warning signs. Something is happening.
In the year 2012 it should be just another normal day in the life of humans. Although there have been horrific changes in our earthly climate, earth quakes & natural disasters of an every 20 year cycle. in the 60′s there were major disasters, 80′s same thing & now the millennium. Life will continue to spawn on planet earth. It just may not include us. Until the great bang on earth takes place lets all just live our lives to the fullest and enjoy this wonderful planet we call EARTH!
For the record I was a neh sayer. I clearly felt that the 2012 predictions and prophecies where all a bunch of fudge.
Deciding to keep an open mind, at the proding of a few people I decided to check things out to the best of my ablity and with the information that was available.
I did find this jounrey for the search for the truth a little daunting at best.
I did find a 16 parrt lecture on you tube that did have some compelling arguments, that was able to tie together ancient prophecies and scientific facts.
Has this changed my sceptism? …. Yes
So in closing I would ask that you check out 2012 timeline by Ivon Stein on you tube, this is a sixteen part series, I would truly like to read other peoples take on this…. Please note there are a few timeline that may be eronious however the bulk of his lecture is quite compelling.
Enjoy the videos
My question is, whitch directtion will J.C. be coming from and will we all be able to see Him ? Cause I want to be in the head of the line with my family.
Like a magnet, positive and negative the polarity of the earth will switch when we pass the galactic plane and move into the opposite hemisphere of the milky way. the closer we get, the polarities are getting weaker until we cross and then it will get stronger after we cross the galactic plane
Tony,
Mighty interesting stuff! How do you know that the Earth’s magnetic poles will flip when the solar system crosses the galactic plane? You didn’t mention a year, but are you referring to 2012? I’d love to know your source of information.
In Earth’s Inconstant Magnetic Field at http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/lookingatearth/29dec_magneticfield.html, the author Tony Phillips mentions that the Earth’s magnetic field has weakened 10% since the 19th century. But does this mean the Earth’s magnetic field is collapsing or that a magnetic reversal is imminent? The article concludes: probably not.
Bruce
November 14 2010 ww3 by Jews and Arabs a nuclear fight for Jerusalem also a cataclysm from space, and crystal skull,and Sumerian aliens stuff( the fourth kind, Egyptians). New Mayan age not a complete end of world Nostradamus said. Just standing by each other with love and hope our benefactor(Jesus) is coming also destructive solar power . We will fight what it truly is to become human and love the earth.Many animals also dying as bible Said fuck Bp Love u bros and sistas worldwide we will walk through the shadows and find light and peace of knowing we are one of few planets to sustain life we will know that we were put on this earth to accomplish something. And love god and cherish life and being alive as a miracle of gods wonders with love for all.Something created us and something will save us. there is no fate but what we make and what we make can be changed to better mankind. bp plz fix mess , everyone respect each other and love. Just cuz things r goin bad doesn’t mean we are doomed. Or screwed (bp) . With love Cristian macias
This guy has it all mixed up … lol
Galactic Plane and the Sun’s Plane are different.
Sure we pass the Solar plane twice a year. The concern is the Galactic Plane, that’s every 25,800 years!
The Earth has the highest probability of tipping if our Magnetosphere is bombarded by Solar flares and CMEs it will cause a movement in the magnetic poles.
What do you mean by “Sun’s Plane”? As seen from Earth, the sun appears to align with the galactic plane (equator) twice a year. In periods of about 13,000 years, the sun appears to align with the galactic plane on the solstices. About 6,500 and 19,500 years from now, the sun will appear to align with the galactic plane on the equinoxes. Once again, the sun appears to pass in front of the galactic plane twice a year every year.
I thihk alot of this comes from biblical references as Jesus said many times to watch and that you would see signs in the heavens related to the end times. You would see famines and pestilences, earth quakes, famine, disease and many terrible things including wars and rumors of wars.
However, people typical stop short and don’t go any further than this. They then mix in things of the world to try to put a timeline to it all. No one but the father knows the exact time of the end. Even Jesus doesn’t know the exact time.
He warned you to watch…. so with what Jesus said once all these happen this is only THE BEGINNING OF THE END.
You must remember 1 day is as a thoussand years to God and a thousand years 1 day. Therefore the only way anyone could be accurate with a end day scenario is to each day say today will be the end.
Jesus also said “that day will not come without a falling away first.”
Keep watch and you will know when he is coming…..
I would like to know the impacts of heat from center of milky way on earth in the months of June and July, when earth is on the other side of the Sun. Will earth receive more heat in future?
M. Shahjahan Bhatti,
I think any heat coming from the center of the Milky Way would be negligible because the Milky Way center is so far distant from us, at some 27,000 light-years away. I suspect we receive a greater amount of heat from the nearby star Arcturus (37 light-years distant). Robert Burnham Jr. – the author of Burnham’s Celestial Handbook – claims that the heat we receive from Arcturus is equal to that of a single candle at a distance of about 5 miles.
Bruce
Bruce,
Keep up the good work!
Before people learned to write down their words, humans could acquire knowledge and change their minds about all sorts of things, with only songs and poems to keep a record. Since we have learned to write, knowledge can correct itself and grow.
Today we know a very great deal more about the Universe we live in than all the ancients put together, if for no other reason, simply because we can read, at least partially, what they had to say, each one of them. But there is not much reason to suppose they were talking to each other across time and space.
The average person has more knowledge available through public libraries and the Internet than the most advanced thinkers of 100 years ago, or a 1,000 years ago, and beyond.
We also have mathematical skills that were available simply because they hadn’t yet been invented. Some of these are not easy to learn, from my personal experience, but they are powerful and can solve very complex problems.
And all of this is available through public education systems that are open to all who have the time and energy. And are willing to pay the small price for the priceless thing we call knowledge.
Reverence for the past is important, but should always be tempered by respect for the people who work hard in the present to understand our place in the world and the very real problems bearing down on us. It is very hard work and not pleasing to many people. But without it, this conversation would not be happening.
George,
Thank you for the kind words. Yes, we can more easily access information than ever before. Even so, I suspect two bits of misinformation won’t be giving up the ghost anytime soon: 1) that Mars can appear as large as the full moon in our sky 2) that the solar system will physically pass through the galactic plane on December 21, 2012.
Bruce
Damion,
So glad youe enjoyed!
Bruce
Mayans along with countless others have been predicting the worlds end since time and memorial and believe it or not, we are still here. As humans we try to rationalise the world around us and thus come to a very basic conclusion, what has a Start/Beginning must logically have a Stop/Finish.
This revalation back in our distant past has permeated throughout the ages from mans dawning to all corners of the globe. Mass extinction events occur and will continue to occur no matter what we as a species do or think. The poles have switched many many times in our (humans past) and we are still here. We need only look to geology for proof of these reversals.
When will it end, is that the question really? I myself believe this to be an irrelevant question/way of thinking. After all as a species we have still got a lot of evolving to do, we are far from finished in that department and with such changes to come, our greatest achievements/challenges are yet to come. “If” as I suspect we have lots of time left we will grow as a collective and propel ourselves into the cosmos in a variety of ways. One being DNA Teraformation. I mean why try to find new planets to suit us, when it will be easier/logical to change ourselves to fit the environments we discovery and seeding many worlds with “”futurosapiens”" of all shapes n sizes. The journey is not about to end on 2012 it has only just begun, so relax enjoy life and the ride/thrills yet to come to our progeny.
How interesting… I posted a comment about how STRANGE I find it that so many authors and documentary writers who present themselves as experts on this subject either FAIL to do the research on this subject or DELIBERATELY AVOID legitimate scientific arguments for the theory while emphasizing STRAWMAN arguments that don’t address the real issue.
SOMEHOW my post never made it to the comments section. How STRANGE!!
Matt,
Sorry your comment didn’t get posted. However, the above comment made it, so you might want to give it another try.
Bruce
Anyhow, the point which I wanted to make has been mentioned in the comments here before, but it is worth repeating again and again until these “experts” learn how to conduct proper research and investigation.
As regards the “galactic alignment” theories, there are THREE (3) different movements which unfortunately get muddled causing much confusion to anybody looking into the matter.
The one most commonly referred to by “experts” such as the above author refers to the conjunction of the ecliptic with the galactic equator twice a year as viewed from Earth.
This “alignment” is NOT SIGNIFICANT as it occurs twice a year and results from the APPARENT motion of the sun relative to the galactic center from a REFERENCE POINT of Earth.
Quite unfortunately (or nefariously depending on your viewpoint), so many “experts” on 2012 speak only of this first alignment, which is the least significant.
Secondly, you have the APPARENT motion of the solstice points relative to the galactic center, which is called the precession of the equinoxes. This motion occurs at the rate of one (1) degree every seventy-two (72) years, and takes approximately 26,000 years to complete.
This motion, while more significant, and a very interesting talking point, is NOT WHAT IS BEING REFERRED TO BY THE END OF MAYAN CALENDAR!
There is a third motion, which is that of the ENTIRE solar system relative to the galactic center, which is the most significant, and almost never discussed.
The solar system takes approximately 250 MILLION years to revolve around the center of the galaxy. As the solar system is revolving around the galactic center, it is also moving ABOVE and BELOW the galactic plane.
The solar system crosses the galactic plane every 32.5 MILLION years or so. Whenever the solar system moves from the SOUTH side to the NORTH side of the plane, there are RAPID and SIGNIFICANT changes to the expression of life on Earth. As such, we have records of mass extinction occurring every 65 MILLION (32.5 * 2) years or so.
Any discussion of the Mayan Calendar, 2012, galactic alignment, etc., which does not mention this third motion is either poorly researched, or a deliberate piece of disinformation.
Hi Matt.
It is my understanding that the the sun is north of the galactic plane and continues to travel northward or away from the galactic plane at the rate of 7 kilometers per second. Given that this is the case, that means the solar system will be farther away from the galactic plane in 2012 than it is at present.
Bruce
Hi Bruce,
Yes, that is my understanding as well. I do not know exactly when this has/will occurred. I have heard as far back as 1998, but I found an article from 2008 that says it will happen soon.
http://www.universetoday.com/14082/comet-strikes-increase-as-we-pass-through-the-galactic-plane/
At any rate, beyond a higher incidence of physical intrusions, it is my understanding that there are also electromagnetic effects due to a loss of shielding which the solar system enjoys while on the south side of the plane.
Keep in mind that there most likely would be a transitory period, during which the shielding effects are decreased but not zero. If you envision an egg which has been immersed in a bowl of honey being plucked out of the bowl, it is sort of like how the egg will still be covered in the honey for a period of time after it is removed from the bowl as the honey drips back down.
Now I am neither a physicist nor an astronomer, but I do have a reasonable working knowledge of both and these claims do seem plausible. Certainly it is up for debate.
However what irks me is when articles are written which take the tone that people who discuss this phenomenon are simpletons or superstitious fools.
If somebody is going to take it upon themselves to write a “debunking” article they should be responsible enough to conduct a thorough investigation into the subject matter.
I should add that the baktun (or Long Count) in the Mayan calendar system is 144,000 days (or 394.3 years).
In the Mayan calendar system, there are higher order cycles than the baktun. In this case, the relevant cycle is called the alautun, which is four (4) orders of magnitude greater than the baktun.
Keep in mind that the Mayans used a vegidecimal system in which orders are based on units of twenty (20) rather than ten (10).
Therefore you have 394.3 (years) * 20 * 20 * 20 * 20 which yields 63,088,000 years for the length of one alautun.
Curiously close to BOTH the periodicity of the mass extinction events and the movement of the solar system through the galactic plane.
Matt,
I read the article based upon the study at the Cardiff Center of Astrobiology. I think the author may have been a bit vague and flippant in his use of “near future.” In claiming that “the solar system will be passing through galactic plane in the NEAR FUTURE,” one could easily get the impression that the crossing of the galactic plane is imminent. I can’t help but wonder if “near future” is based on the scale of a human lifetime or geological time.
For another take of our place relative to the galactic plane, I quote the astronomer Ken Croswell from his article “The Brightest Red Dwarf,” found in the July 2002 issue of SKY & TELESCOPE magazine (and also on the internet):
“As they orbit the Milky Way, stars bob up and down through the galactic plane like horses on a merry-go-round. At the moment the Sun is a bit north of the galactic plane and moving northward at 7 kilometers per second. This velocity carries the Sun – and us – upward 1.5 astronomical units per year. In 15 million years, the Sun and our remote ancestors will attain a height of 200 to 250 light-years above the galactic plane. After that, we will plunge back down.”
Estimates presently place the solar system at several dozen light-years from the galactic plane. One light-year is equal to about 63,000 astronomical units (an astronomical unit = Sun/Earth distance). So even if the Sun were traveling TOWARD the galactic plane at 1.5 astronomical units per year, the solar system still wouldn’t be crossing the galactic plane anytime soon!
Bruce
Hi Bruce,
Thanks for the info. Looks like we could all use some clarification on this. I didn’t realize that it was yet still unclear where exactly we are relative to the rest of the galaxy.
Regarding the article based upon the study at the Cardiff Center of Astrobiology, it is true that the author does not specify whether the “near future” is in human time or geological time. However, if your numbers are correct, then the article is entirely wrong.
If the solar system is currently several dozen light years above and traveling away from the galactic plane, then (even in geological time) it is not going to pass through the plane anytime in the near future.
I am also confused by the Croswell article. Using a conversion of 63,240 astronomical units per light year, then according to Croswell it would take the solar system 42,160 years to travel one light year away from the galactic plane.
That means it would take 8.4 – 10.5 million years for the solar system to reach the maximum height of 200-250 million light years. Yet Croswell says that it will take 15 million years.
Also, Croswell does not specify if the figure of 1.5 AU per year is the average or instantaneous speed. I would assume that the closer the solar system is to the galactic plane, the faster it is traveling.
Therefore, if the solar system is still relatively close to the galactic plane, it would be highly inaccurate to use an average speed of 1.5 AU per year in order to calculate when it last crossed the galactic plane.
Actually, using a distance of 500 million light years (up and down) and a period of 32.5 million years then we arrive at an average speed of ~15 light years per year. In AU this is 948,600 AU per year…. several orders of magnitude greater than the figure put forth by Croswell.
Using an average speed of 15 light years per year, then the calculations are consistent with the other data in question. If, as you say, we are currently several dozen light years above the galactic plane, then we crossed sometime within the last 8 – 12 years or so.
Do you have any recommendations for a reliable source for these figures? It seems that both of the authors we are discussing here are confused.
My apologies, after hitting submit, I realized that I had committed an error in one of the calculations.
With regard to this paragraph:
“That means it would take 8.4 – 10.5 million years for the solar system to reach the maximum height of 200-250 million light years. Yet Croswell says that it will take 15 million years.”
If the solar system has an average speed of 1.5 AU per year relative to the galactic plane, then it would take ~10.5 TRILLION years to reach a maximum distance of 250 million light years from the galactic plane.
Ahhhh! All of my calculations are off… seeing as how it is theoretically impossible for a body to move faster than the speed of light! Please disregard, I need to recalculate everything.
Matt,
Figure that the sun moves plus or minus 250 light-years from the galactic plane – not 250 MILLION light-years!
Bruce
And, where are all the bees?
ok i belive that the glatic plane will not be the end of us ive being reading up on this for while now and i think we will survive as u guys have being saying the we pass thow it 2 twice a year i cant see what the diffrence will be thish time i will now go and read up some more!!!!!
I have come across several sources that state our solar system crosses
the Galactic Plane periodically. Quoting an unknown blogger: “…Every
65 million years or so, the solar system passes through the galactic
plane, our next trespassing will be in 2012. The galactic plane is the
most dense part of the galactic disc. That will be the best time for
something to run into us, or us to run into something…” I assume the
writer means there is an increased chance of Earth nearing NEO objects
or being impacted by them. So, my questions in general: I would like
someone to explain briefly the Galactic Plane travel, what does 2012
have to do with it, and is the Earth more or less in danger as a
result of this event when it happens? Also, have major extiction evens
coincided with crossing the Galactic Plane? Thanks
declan,
It’s my understanding that the solar system physically passed through the galactic plane a few million years ago. We will be father north of the the galactic plane in 2012 than we are now.
Bruce
HI BRUCE TY FOR YOUR QUCIK REPLY IM GOWING TO GO AND DO SOME MORE REASERCH =)
first, i know i can google, but just for the sake of continuity with the forum, i have seen you have said several times that the solar system is traveling northward from the galactic plane and that is your recollection you have seen this info somewhere but one reference to where to find the source material would be great.
i googled it anyway and found some info. But i have to say that looking at those numbers there is uncertainty in knowing where are we relative to the galactic plane, so even though they are saying something we might have not crossed over yet.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v316/n6030/abs/316706a0.html
Also found this other link that states “we are in a bombardment episode now”.
http://www.astrobiology.cf.ac.uk/impact_cratering_07may08.pdf
Enquirer78,
Thank you for the links and for your active participation in the discussion. Yes, I’ve seen from other sources that the solar system last crossed the galactic plane about 3 million years ago, and routinely passes through the galactic plane in periods of roughly 35 million years. I’ve also read the speculation about the increased number of comets with these galactic crossings. I send you another link about our solar system and its relation to the galctic plane at http://www.2012hoax.org/galactic-plane.
Bruce
enquirer78, I have given the reference before, but will do so again. In fact, I’ll give you three:
1) The Brightest Red Dwarf by Ken Croswell (next to last paragraph) at http://kencroswell.com/thebrightestreddwarf.html
2) How often does the Sun pass through a spiral arm in the Milky Way by Karen Masters at http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=402
3) Astronomy Answers 21 December 2012 (scroll down to 4. Other Claims) at http://www.astro.uu.nl/~strous/AA/en/2012.html
Bruce
one oter thing thats got me wondering as i said before that i think we are vonderble to being hit by objects as we move thow the the glactic plane are we gowing to be hit by any space dabre our are we safe from space dabre.merites etc?
declan,
Are you familiar with the Near Earth Asteroid Tracking (NEAT) project? Click at http://neat.jpl.nasa.gov/neofaq.html for at least a partial answer to your question.
Bruce
hi bruce ty agen the web site is very very good ty
Bruce,
If we step back from the discussion about passing through the galactic plane and the relative observation points to focus on some other scientific facts, I’d like to ask you a few questions.
Observation) I recently saw a NOVA program entitled “Megabeasts’ Sudden Death”. The extinction of wooly mammoths and the saber-tooth tiger are now believed to have been caused by a comet that exploded over North America. This appears to have happened 13,000 years ago. I cannot help notice that 13,000 is half of 26,000 years. In the sine wave pattern of the precession of the equinoxes the solar system (Earth included) would cross this point every 13,000 years. The physical evidence of nano-diamonds in the ice core samples was strong physical evidence of such a comet causing the event.
Question 1) If the Earth and solar system are not physically going through the galactic plane on this cycle, do you know of another region of space that we would be passing through on this 13,000 year cycle (perhaps an oort cloud like region)that could account for the consistent layers in the ice core samples that are found at 13,000 year intervals?
I have read back through most of the posts here and I cannot help but notice people asking the wrong question. The same thing happens with these other documentaries where the host asks a NASA or other “expert” the inevitable question of “Is the Earth going to end in 2012?”
The obvious answer in “No”, and I agree. The fact that the Earth is here now and we are conversing in this blog is proof that the planet is resilient and goes through many catastrophic events and survives. The better question to ask is “Is there physical evidence of patterned catastrophies that indicate that the Earth is going to go through one of these events in the near future and make surival difficult for all life forms?”
It is my understanding that we have more than 485,000 years of ice core samples and every 13,000 years there is a layer of ice (like rings in a tree) with evidence of irridium and other extra-terrestrial isotopes, volcanic ash and other microscopic evidence that prove there is a global event on a repeating schedule.
Your thoughts?
Admiralh,
My thoughts? Let me start with your statement, “In the sine wave pattern of the precession of the equinoxes the solar system (Earth included) would pass this point every 13,000 years.”
What point? As seen from Earth, the Earth’s solstice points appear to align with the galactic plane (equator) in periods of 13,000 years. But that doesn’t mean the solar sytem itself is crossing the galactic plane every 13,000 years.
To illustrate, let’s go to Mars. On Mars – like on Earth – the sun appears to cross the galactic plane twice a year every Martian year. According to Wikipedia, one Mars’ precession cycle equals 93,000 Martian years (175,000 Earth years). Therefore, as seen from Mars, the winter solstice point in Mars’ northern (or southern) hemisphere would align with the galactic plane every 93,000 Martian years. Once again, that doesn’t mean the solar system crosses the galactic plane whenever the Martian solstice points cross the galactic plane.
Bruce
Bruce,
I agree. The observation point and all these understandings/misunderstandings aside; physical records in ice core records and in land based sediments confirm that something on a global scale is happening on an approximate 13,000 year cycle. Since we are not physically crossing the galactic plane, there must be another repeating pattern.
Is there something else that our solar system could be physically going through on a 13,000 year cycle. Perhaps something like going through an oort cloud ?
It is my understanding that the pattern our solar system takes as it revolves around the galactic plane would best be described as a corkscrew sine wave. I believe the corkscrew motion is caused by the gravity tug from the outer arm of our galaxy. Perhaps we are encountering a debris filled region as part of the corkscrew motion within the larger sine wave cycle. Just a thought.
axial precession takes 23,000 years, so every 13,000 years the seasons are reversed (norther hemisphere gets winter when southern hemisphere do now), but its really a gradual process, not that it will happen all of a sudden at a point in time, but still maybe the change of seasons in precession would wreak havok incrementally in a period of time during that cycle and trigger seldom phenomena. and maybe there is another cycle im unaware of.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precession#Axial_precession_.28precession_of_the_equinoxes.29
enquirer78,
For more on precession and the calendar, I invite you to read this article (under the subheading Bad Astronomy) at http://www.idialstars.com/vas.htm.
Bruce
Admirald,
I’m not familar with the 13,000-year (climatic?) cycle, as revealed by ice core studies. But if you have an article or a source of information that you can share with me, I’d like to see it. Perhaps an ice core scientist could better answer your inquiry.
I think of the Oort Cloud as a spherical sphere of icy debris at or near the edge of the sun’s gravitational influence, with perhaps as many as a trillion comets populating this region of space. I’m not sure that the Oort Cloud has been directly observed, but its existance seems to be accepted.
According to theory, disruption by a passing star or molecular cloud can disrupt an Oort Cloud object, sending it through the inner solar system as a long-period comet.
i found this link, there is a reference towards the end of the article to the 13,000 year cycle ice core samples. http://www.fromthestars.com/page171a.html
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[...] Originally Posted by light1111 There's also the whole galaxy-alignment thing. At 11:11:11 GST, 12/21/12, the whole solar system, including the sun, will align itself through the center of our Milky Way. What is up with that?! The Mayans were phenomenal in their understanding of celestial movements, and today's science shows them to be off in their estimations by mere seconds. Clearly they knew that 12/21/12 would mark this alignment, but I always wonder why they chose that date, that alignment, to end their calendar. Perhaps it really is the case that human life will be impacted by that alignment–not through natural disasters, but in our collective consciousness. I wonder . . . I once heard an astrophysicist comment on "Astrology." He said, most scientists are going to dismiss astrology as hogwash, and not true science. However, here I am, I have a Ph.D. in astrophysics, and I'm here to tell you that it's real. But here's the thing: it's not that Saturn is impacting you; that the position of the moon has you in its thrall. These tiny planets and moons and so on are not the point. It's that there's something even bigger, further out, and more vast, than anything we can point to, that's impacting Saturn, the moon, etc. All of the universe is thus impacted by this "larger influence," and the trickle-down effect can be seen in modern astrology, which bothers to point to the planets and so on as they rotate about the sun. Hmm!! Will Earth pass through the galactic plane in 2012? | Space | EarthSky [...]
So i got really scared when i watched conspiricy theory with Jessy Ventura the other night on the government building secret underground bunkers for 12/21/12 cause some nasa person on the show said that he has proof that there will be a real disaster because of something to do with the magnetosphere having a “gap” or “hole” and that we are going to burn up! Please give me some clarification and piece of mind on this. Now i’m really scared!
Kim,
Does this NASA person that you refer to have a name?
Bruce
guess i didnt catch the name. Anyway what is your take on this whole thing? You seem like you know a lot about it. I really dont know much but i hate hearing so much negative on it!
It is strange to see just how many different sites the internet has about this subject! I don’t know if I’m ever going to need to come back, but it’s good to know I found the one that provides some valuable information if this should come up for me again
Really great informative blog post here and I just wanted to comment & thank you for posting this. I’ve bookmarked youi blog and I’ll be back to read more in the future my friend! Also nice colors on the layout, it’s really easy on the eyes.
Gu
Year end tax planning might be a little tougher this season since the status of the Bush tax cuts and the federal tax brackets continue to be up within the air. obviously the expiring tax cuts won’t go into impact until 2011 but the pending improve in taxes for long term capital gains and dividends could mean you may take advantage of some year end tax moves like loss harvesting and wash sales.
Wow, must say really interesting reading! Not read all, but will do in time. So much to go through lol. You definitely know your stuff. Tho’ I do believe that 2012 will bring some significance and that there will be some disruption with the solar flares. I can’t see that much is spoken about it here and I wonder why?
Thanks
Marisa
Marisa,
For some reading on 2012 and solar flares, check out Solar Flares at http://www.2012hoax.org/solar-flares or 2012: No Killer Solar Flare at http://www.universetoday.com/14645/2012-no-killer-solar-flare/
Bruce
[...] Nostradamus, reversal of the North/South magnetic poles, Collision with “Planet X”, our allignment with the galactic plane, super volcanoes, the Web Bot Project, religious [...]
I encourage each and everyone who comes to this site to fully read the comments section as it enlightens the reader to the writer’s over-simplification of this issue.
The problem with this is that you have two sides when there should be only one. On one hand you have spiritualists claiming “end of days” and on the other scientists who totally disreguard information.
When the comment which brought up the fact that the sun’s perspective was irrelevant to the situation, the writer conceded…but did nothing to ammend this erroneous mistake.
Here is the discussion-
“Steve Jones says:
October 5, 2009 at 10:43 am
This article talks about the apparent view of the solstice points from the earth or from the sun etc. This is not relevant to what is being said about the 2012 period. What i have been told is that the cycle being described by the Mayan long-count relates to the Solar system as an object relative to the disk of the galaxy. The idea is that our solar system is moving in orbit around the galactic center in such a way that it wobbles up and down through the plane of the galactic disk every (whatever) number of years.
The apparent view from this or that location is not a relevent aspect of the discussion.”
and the writer’s reply-
Bruce McClure says:
October 6, 2009 at 6:46 am
Hi Steve.
“Yes, I concur with you. As the sun orbits the galactic center in an estimated 230 million years, the sun (and solar sytem) bob up then down through the galactic plane in periods of roughly 35 million years. From the accounts that I have read, the solar system now lies several dozen light-years north of the galactic plane. (To see scientific abstracts that give various estimates for the sun’s distance from the galactic plane, do a Google search, typing in: sun, distance from galactic plane.) It’s my understanding that the sun is moving away from the galactic plane at some 7 kilometers per second, and won’t start its descent toward the plane of our Milky Way galaxy for millions of years to come.
Bruce”
So the fact is you over-simplified article really has nothing to do with the fears these overtly religious folks have about the end of the world.
We need scientists to stop going overboard and making erroneous claims to calm the ignorant masses. What we need is actual hard science. Put away the hoola hoops and post some data…stop using the sun’s POV as a way to quell these other less rational beings.
Why is it so hard to find rational beings that can answer questions with absolutes instead of “Well we really don’t know where we are in relation to the galaxy and the galactic plane so I am just going to guess.” Which is exactly what the other side is doing. Then you post links to places like “2012 hoax.com” as your proof? Why not quote wikipedia while you’re at it.
Do you understand that this article makes you no better than the others who claim doomsday is at hand?
Try again…for all of our sakes. Only then can rational, logical minds prevail.
Rationalist,
All abstracts with which I’m familiar place the solar system at light-years away from the galactic plane. In addition, the solar system is moving away from the galactic plane as we speak. If you do a Google search, using the key words “galactic plane sun abstract,” you can check out a number of these scientific abstracts for yourself. I include one for your convenience: The Sun’s Distance Above The Galactic Plane by Roberta M. Humphreys and Jeffrey A. Larsen, Department of Astronomy, University of Minnesota at http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1995AJ….110.2183H. The authors claim that the solar system lies 20.5 (+ or – 3.5) parsecs above the galactic plane. Incidentally one parsec = 3.26 light-years.
Given the information found in this and other abstracts, it looks like the solar system won’t be crossing the galactic plane in 2012 or anytime in the near future. If you have a viable source of information that counters this claim, please feel free to share your reference with us.
Bruce
No, I can not counter this information, as personally… I do not believe it to be a valid possibility.
What I wanted was what you have provided in your reply…now input that up above…and we have sound verifiable science to calm these others.
Thank you.
The real danger I believe our solar system will encounter on its travels through galactic space/plane will be:
Optical polarization of gamma ray burst to form antimatter streams that would be relational to power of orgin, warped space factor, and the incedentals of positron creation.
Correlation to secondary radiation from a warped space plane…. we don’t know when we cross it, or what form it will take. Just trying to brighten up your day……(get it, “brighten up your day”)….. grin!
farmerTom
aka: Tom
I just googled this truly fruitful infos here, thank you.
As for Maya calendar, I understand the 21/12/2012 end date is a matter of opinion itself. It is generally most accepted date (GMT theory) but many scientists doubt it. There are many more suggested end dates by other scientsts, some of which appear to be a result of a more conclusive research. For instance scientists in my country have recently come up with the date 14/12/2116 explaining why this date is much more probable than generally accepted theory of 2012, which appearantely has its flaws. If that were true then suddenly all the “Earth/Galaxy position of 2012″ theories would lose their ground.
Anyways I fail to see anything significant about the solstice aligning with the galactic plane every 26000 years. So what? Its interesting, but nothing else. why should that be so important?
And my other (if it is too stupid or does not belong here than Im sorry in advance) question is:
What about the Earths MAGNETIC poles? Could not there be some weird and unique relationship between the galactic and Earth (and even the Sun) magnetic field due to a unique Earth/Sun/galactic plane setting? I know the Earth magnetic poles are slowly moving. Could THEY happen to get into some unique position causing something significant to happen? Or is it irrelevant?
cyright,
You might want to read Earth’s Inconstant Magnetic Field at http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/lookingatearth/29dec_magneticfield.html. The article states, “The magnetic field waxes and wanes, poles drift and, occasionally, flip. Change is normal…”
Bruce
Gosh Bruce I hope you’re right! Helen
truthseeker,
It’s not that I’m right or wrong. I’m trusting that the information presented in scientific abstracts about the sun’s distance from the galactic plane is correct.
Bruce
The sun does this twice a year. How will the earth react to it