<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Janaki Alavalapati on forests&#8217; renewable energy potential</title>
	<atom:link href="http://earthsky.org/energy/the-renewable-energy-potential-of-forests/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://earthsky.org/energy/the-renewable-energy-potential-of-forests</link>
	<description>A Clear Voice for Science</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 04:17:44 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: kristi hanson</title>
		<link>http://earthsky.org/energy/the-renewable-energy-potential-of-forests/comment-page-1#comment-2793</link>
		<dc:creator>kristi hanson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 11:44:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://208.96.63.114/?p=4456#comment-2793</guid>
		<description>	&lt;p&gt;We need to keep our forests with all of its components. small trees and undergrowth feeds the ecosystem, and protects wildlife. we need the forest floor intact. downded wood should be left to compost and build soil.  No roads, noise, skid trail, or truck tires. please, Sincerely Kristi Hanson&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We need to keep our forests with all of its components. small trees and undergrowth feeds the ecosystem, and protects wildlife. we need the forest floor intact. downded wood should be left to compost and build soil.  No roads, noise, skid trail, or truck tires. please, Sincerely Kristi Hanson</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Deborah Byrd</title>
		<link>http://earthsky.org/energy/the-renewable-energy-potential-of-forests/comment-page-1#comment-7572</link>
		<dc:creator>Deborah Byrd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 17:07:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://208.96.63.114/?p=4456#comment-7572</guid>
		<description>	&lt;p&gt;Welcome to this discussion Bruce.  We value all opinions here.&lt;/p&gt;

	&lt;p&gt;Deborah&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Welcome to this discussion Bruce.  We value all opinions here.</p>
<p>Deborah</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bruce</title>
		<link>http://earthsky.org/energy/the-renewable-energy-potential-of-forests/comment-page-1#comment-7573</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 17:00:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://208.96.63.114/?p=4456#comment-7573</guid>
		<description>	&lt;p&gt;Please excuse my butting in from the other side of the planet,but I stumbled onto your discussion by accident and felt that some important points had to be made.My wife and I are trying to reforest cleared , badly degraded ,farmland and are watching the developements in biomass energy with interest as it will provide a market for the thinnings and lower grade offcuts that are normally just a fire hazard waiting to happen.There is a lot of poor quality farmland around here that should never have been cleared ,and a good result for us may encourage some of our neighbours to look at forestry in a different light.At this stage, whenever the subject comes up, the first question is &#8220;what about the greenies?&#8221;.I know what they mean,I come from 5 generations of tree growers, mixed age, mixed species, natural australian forest.When others tripled the value of their land by clearing it or magnified its value tenfold by housing subdivisions, my family stuck with forestry, with interfearance from people who should have been trying to help. If the green movement had decided to back sustainable forestry instead of concrete, steel, plastic etc the planet would be in a lot better shape.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please excuse my butting in from the other side of the planet,but I stumbled onto your discussion by accident and felt that some important points had to be made.My wife and I are trying to reforest cleared , badly degraded ,farmland and are watching the developements in biomass energy with interest as it will provide a market for the thinnings and lower grade offcuts that are normally just a fire hazard waiting to happen.There is a lot of poor quality farmland around here that should never have been cleared ,and a good result for us may encourage some of our neighbours to look at forestry in a different light.At this stage, whenever the subject comes up, the first question is &#8220;what about the greenies?&#8221;.I know what they mean,I come from 5 generations of tree growers, mixed age, mixed species, natural australian forest.When others tripled the value of their land by clearing it or magnified its value tenfold by housing subdivisions, my family stuck with forestry, with interfearance from people who should have been trying to help. If the green movement had decided to back sustainable forestry instead of concrete, steel, plastic etc the planet would be in a lot better shape.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Craig Rhodes</title>
		<link>http://earthsky.org/energy/the-renewable-energy-potential-of-forests/comment-page-1#comment-7579</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig Rhodes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 11:35:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://208.96.63.114/?p=4456#comment-7579</guid>
		<description>	&lt;p&gt;Liza,&lt;/p&gt;

	&lt;p&gt;I may be wrong but your post seems to give the &lt;span class=&quot;caps&quot;&gt;AFF&lt;/span&gt; a pass.  &lt;/p&gt;

	&lt;p&gt;The &lt;span class=&quot;caps&quot;&gt;AFF&lt;/span&gt; is an industry group that, among other things, provides free material to teachers  that advances the forest industry agenda, which is not necessarily pro forest.  The dairy industry does the same as well as other industry groups.  As a teacher, I&#8217;m well aware of the tactic.  The driving force of these groups is profit not education.&lt;/p&gt;

	&lt;p&gt;Their list of sponsors is the give away.  Years ago these were the same groups who were advocating the practice of clear cutting to &#8220;improve&#8221; the forest.  They are also now the same groups who advocate prescribed burns.  &lt;/p&gt;

	&lt;p&gt;In other words, they&#8217;re getting taxpayer money to burn.&lt;/p&gt;

	&lt;p&gt;I have decades of observing one of the sponsors, the Illinois Dept. of Natural Resources Division of Forestry, burn a large area of forest acreage on state land near my home.  The damage done is a testament to the lie that prescribed burns are necessary to improve the forest.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Liza,</p>
<p>I may be wrong but your post seems to give the <span class="caps">AFF</span> a pass.  </p>
<p>The <span class="caps">AFF</span> is an industry group that, among other things, provides free material to teachers  that advances the forest industry agenda, which is not necessarily pro forest.  The dairy industry does the same as well as other industry groups.  As a teacher, I&#8217;m well aware of the tactic.  The driving force of these groups is profit not education.</p>
<p>Their list of sponsors is the give away.  Years ago these were the same groups who were advocating the practice of clear cutting to &#8220;improve&#8221; the forest.  They are also now the same groups who advocate prescribed burns.  </p>
<p>In other words, they&#8217;re getting taxpayer money to burn.</p>
<p>I have decades of observing one of the sponsors, the Illinois Dept. of Natural Resources Division of Forestry, burn a large area of forest acreage on state land near my home.  The damage done is a testament to the lie that prescribed burns are necessary to improve the forest.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mark Donham</title>
		<link>http://earthsky.org/energy/the-renewable-energy-potential-of-forests/comment-page-1#comment-4981</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Donham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 22:17:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://208.96.63.114/?p=4456#comment-4981</guid>
		<description>	&lt;p&gt;Deborah,  One more comment.  If you look at your picture accompanying the story, it shows a somewhat typical regenerating hardwood forest with an old road going thru it.  Do you see one piece of &#8220;brush&#8221; in the photo?&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Deborah,  One more comment.  If you look at your picture accompanying the story, it shows a somewhat typical regenerating hardwood forest with an old road going thru it.  Do you see one piece of &#8220;brush&#8221; in the photo?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Liza</title>
		<link>http://earthsky.org/energy/the-renewable-energy-potential-of-forests/comment-page-1#comment-4985</link>
		<dc:creator>Liza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 17:30:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://208.96.63.114/?p=4456#comment-4985</guid>
		<description>	&lt;p&gt;I have to say that I am the first to sniff out a lobbyist group but I did some checking around and the American Forest Foundation does not appear to be an organization representing the forest or natural resources industry, but quite the opposite. The &lt;span class=&quot;caps&quot;&gt;AFF&lt;/span&gt; was originally started as the most widely used environmental education curriculum in American K-12 classrooms. Just look at their sponsors page http://www.affoundation.org/partners.html.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to say that I am the first to sniff out a lobbyist group but I did some checking around and the American Forest Foundation does not appear to be an organization representing the forest or natural resources industry, but quite the opposite. The <span class="caps">AFF</span> was originally started as the most widely used environmental education curriculum in American K-12 classrooms. Just look at their sponsors page <a href="http://www.affoundation.org/partners.html." rel="nofollow">http://www.affoundation.org/partners.html.</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: a p garcia</title>
		<link>http://earthsky.org/energy/the-renewable-energy-potential-of-forests/comment-page-1#comment-4984</link>
		<dc:creator>a p garcia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 14:37:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://208.96.63.114/?p=4456#comment-4984</guid>
		<description>	&lt;p&gt;This website is suppose to be about acience and the &#8220;Law of Conservation of Matter and Energy&#8221; clearly states that matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed.  I don&#8217;t know what universe that Janaki Alavalapati lives in, but he clearly needs a refresher course in Physics.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This website is suppose to be about acience and the &#8220;Law of Conservation of Matter and Energy&#8221; clearly states that matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed.  I don&#8217;t know what universe that Janaki Alavalapati lives in, but he clearly needs a refresher course in Physics.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David B.</title>
		<link>http://earthsky.org/energy/the-renewable-energy-potential-of-forests/comment-page-1#comment-3638</link>
		<dc:creator>David B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 14:34:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://208.96.63.114/?p=4456#comment-3638</guid>
		<description>	&lt;p&gt;With this minute and a half infomercial dedicated to advancing the bottom lines of the corporate interests and funders of Earth and Sky, a line has been crossed, ethically,  journalistically and scientifically.&lt;/p&gt;

	&lt;p&gt;Please, in what little remains of the eleventh hour of our planet, refrain from such obfuscation and misinformation around  turning our forests into ethanol as a good thing. The explicit message is &#8220;food versus fuel&#8221; is all we have to be concerned with. Nothing could be farther from the truth. &lt;br /&gt;
Most people can rightfully intuit forests have functions that go beyond corporate profiteering from ethanol blends. That the taxpayer is subsidizing 51 cents a gallon for ethanol production is reprehensible in itself.&lt;/p&gt;

	&lt;p&gt;While we can understand Earth and Sky&#8217;s deep appreciation for its corporate funders such as the American Forest Foundation, Shell, Monsanto, BP and others deeply invested in the biomass industry, there&#8217;s two decades of science to draw from to give us serious pause. From that science we can grasp the  foolishness of thinking biomass is going to solve our problem of fossil fuel dependence creating catastrophic climate change. Reducing forests to ethanol greatly worsens the mass extinction going on, and accelerates ocean acidification and global climate change.&lt;/p&gt;

 Biomass removal destroys structure and function of forest ecosystems and massive species declines are already our fate. The harm resulting from carbon released by forest biomass removal far exceeds any purported &#8220;efficiencies&#8221; your report blithely claims. Forests have functioned as carbon sinks, carbon reservoirs, essential plant and animal habitat, regulators of weather, and are necessary to sustaining watershed functions to name a few other benefits besides corporate commodities.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With this minute and a half infomercial dedicated to advancing the bottom lines of the corporate interests and funders of Earth and Sky, a line has been crossed, ethically,  journalistically and scientifically.</p>
<p>Please, in what little remains of the eleventh hour of our planet, refrain from such obfuscation and misinformation around  turning our forests into ethanol as a good thing. The explicit message is &#8220;food versus fuel&#8221; is all we have to be concerned with. Nothing could be farther from the truth. <br />
Most people can rightfully intuit forests have functions that go beyond corporate profiteering from ethanol blends. That the taxpayer is subsidizing 51 cents a gallon for ethanol production is reprehensible in itself.</p>
<p>While we can understand Earth and Sky&#8217;s deep appreciation for its corporate funders such as the American Forest Foundation, Shell, Monsanto, BP and others deeply invested in the biomass industry, there&#8217;s two decades of science to draw from to give us serious pause. From that science we can grasp the  foolishness of thinking biomass is going to solve our problem of fossil fuel dependence creating catastrophic climate change. Reducing forests to ethanol greatly worsens the mass extinction going on, and accelerates ocean acidification and global climate change.</p>
<p> Biomass removal destroys structure and function of forest ecosystems and massive species declines are already our fate. The harm resulting from carbon released by forest biomass removal far exceeds any purported &#8220;efficiencies&#8221; your report blithely claims. Forests have functioned as carbon sinks, carbon reservoirs, essential plant and animal habitat, regulators of weather, and are necessary to sustaining watershed functions to name a few other benefits besides corporate commodities.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John H. King</title>
		<link>http://earthsky.org/energy/the-renewable-energy-potential-of-forests/comment-page-1#comment-4982</link>
		<dc:creator>John H. King</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 14:27:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://208.96.63.114/?p=4456#comment-4982</guid>
		<description>

	&lt;p&gt;The problem is how to distinguish between sound scientific and engineering understanding, wishful thinking, and special interest hype. In many cases we encounter mixtures of each. Unfortunately, the lay public is at a very significant disadvantage when it comes to evaluation of claims.&lt;/p&gt;

	&lt;p&gt;Tad Patzek, UC Berkley, College of Engineering, Charles A. S. Hall, State University of New York, College of Environmental Science &amp; Forestry and David Pimentel, Prof emeritus Cornell and perhaps some others have done very credible and detailed analysis of Biofuel cycles and have conclusively shown that no Biofuel cycles can ever be net energy positive. It&#8217;s in the Thermodynamics. Beyond that, it is necessary that such biomass remain on the forest floor to maintain the &#8220;health&#8221; of the soil necessary to sustain the forest. Neither industrial &#8220;mining&#8221; of the forest overgrowth, forest floor or cropland can ever be net energy positive. If Patzeg is correct, and I have every reason to understand that he is correct, then it follows that Janaki Alavalapati who was interviewed on the Earth &amp; Sky program must be dead wrong in his claim of the sustainability of harvesting Biomass from the forest floor.&lt;/p&gt;

	&lt;p&gt;But it is Patzek&#8217;s paper Thermodynamics of the Corn-Ethanol Biofuel Cycle which provides an excellent treatise on what is possible and not possible and what the terms Sustainable and Renewable actually mean. This is covered very nicely in Section II, Sustainability &amp; Renewability and in several sections in the appendices of this paper. This paper does presuppose a good working knowledge of Thermodynamics that is beyond the level of introductory college physics, i.e. the Fist and Second laws of Thermodynamics. But much more important is that Patzek&#8217;s &#8220;message&#8221; goes well beyond the issues surrounding Biofuels. He tells us (how to determine) what is possible and not possible.&lt;/p&gt;

	&lt;p&gt;There is far too much &#8220;gee wiz&#8221; &#8220;engineering&#8221; and &#8220;advocating&#8221; from the &#8220;uninformed&#8221; going on everywhere, especially from special interests, in regard to the Energy Question. It&#8217;s the whole System which must be understood. Everything is interconnected. But it is ultimately the continuous flow of &#8220;free energy&#8221; which enables anything to happen and the only indefinitely sustainable flow of &#8220;free energy&#8221; ultimately comes from the incident radiation from the sun. Some of that, a very small amount, was stored in fossil fuels over millions of years in the past. Some other &#8220;free energy&#8221;, a larger amount, is held in the the deposits of the U235 isotope and that could last for, perhaps, several thousands of years with fast breeder reactor technology. Atomic fusion might some day be possible and that would provide an effectively inexhaustible supply of &#8220;free energy&#8221;. So when we use the term Sustainable we really need to ask &#8220;sustainable for how long&#8221;.  Radiation from the sun, which also drives the wind. ocean waves and etc, is an effectively inexhaustible but it is a very dilute inflow of &#8220;free energy&#8221; which, necessarily, requires concentration to be useful and that necessarily presents very significant and complex technological problems.&lt;/p&gt;

	&lt;p&gt;Best regards, John King&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem is how to distinguish between sound scientific and engineering understanding, wishful thinking, and special interest hype. In many cases we encounter mixtures of each. Unfortunately, the lay public is at a very significant disadvantage when it comes to evaluation of claims.</p>
<p>Tad Patzek, UC Berkley, College of Engineering, Charles A. S. Hall, State University of New York, College of Environmental Science &amp; Forestry and David Pimentel, Prof emeritus Cornell and perhaps some others have done very credible and detailed analysis of Biofuel cycles and have conclusively shown that no Biofuel cycles can ever be net energy positive. It&#8217;s in the Thermodynamics. Beyond that, it is necessary that such biomass remain on the forest floor to maintain the &#8220;health&#8221; of the soil necessary to sustain the forest. Neither industrial &#8220;mining&#8221; of the forest overgrowth, forest floor or cropland can ever be net energy positive. If Patzeg is correct, and I have every reason to understand that he is correct, then it follows that Janaki Alavalapati who was interviewed on the Earth &amp; Sky program must be dead wrong in his claim of the sustainability of harvesting Biomass from the forest floor.</p>
<p>But it is Patzek&#8217;s paper Thermodynamics of the Corn-Ethanol Biofuel Cycle which provides an excellent treatise on what is possible and not possible and what the terms Sustainable and Renewable actually mean. This is covered very nicely in Section II, Sustainability &amp; Renewability and in several sections in the appendices of this paper. This paper does presuppose a good working knowledge of Thermodynamics that is beyond the level of introductory college physics, i.e. the Fist and Second laws of Thermodynamics. But much more important is that Patzek&#8217;s &#8220;message&#8221; goes well beyond the issues surrounding Biofuels. He tells us (how to determine) what is possible and not possible.</p>
<p>There is far too much &#8220;gee wiz&#8221; &#8220;engineering&#8221; and &#8220;advocating&#8221; from the &#8220;uninformed&#8221; going on everywhere, especially from special interests, in regard to the Energy Question. It&#8217;s the whole System which must be understood. Everything is interconnected. But it is ultimately the continuous flow of &#8220;free energy&#8221; which enables anything to happen and the only indefinitely sustainable flow of &#8220;free energy&#8221; ultimately comes from the incident radiation from the sun. Some of that, a very small amount, was stored in fossil fuels over millions of years in the past. Some other &#8220;free energy&#8221;, a larger amount, is held in the the deposits of the U235 isotope and that could last for, perhaps, several thousands of years with fast breeder reactor technology. Atomic fusion might some day be possible and that would provide an effectively inexhaustible supply of &#8220;free energy&#8221;. So when we use the term Sustainable we really need to ask &#8220;sustainable for how long&#8221;.  Radiation from the sun, which also drives the wind. ocean waves and etc, is an effectively inexhaustible but it is a very dilute inflow of &#8220;free energy&#8221; which, necessarily, requires concentration to be useful and that necessarily presents very significant and complex technological problems.</p>
<p>Best regards, John King</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Charles Phillips</title>
		<link>http://earthsky.org/energy/the-renewable-energy-potential-of-forests/comment-page-1#comment-3029</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Phillips</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 13:30:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://208.96.63.114/?p=4456#comment-3029</guid>
		<description>	&lt;p&gt;Deborah- I live in a rural part of Missouri which has several corn based ethanol plants nearby. Your report failed to mention the fact that it takes 4 gallons of water to produce one gallon of ethanol. Many of the ethanol plants have had to cut back production because of this fact and one plant did not get started because the locals fought it due to the loss of ther water table. Ethanol production is a resource intensive product. Were you aware that there has been a $.77/gallon subsidy for the production of ethanol since 1977? Archer-Daniels-Midland is and has been producing ethanol for many years (&lt;span class=&quot;caps&quot;&gt;ADM&lt;/span&gt; also contributes large sums of money to political campaigns). I would suggest that E&amp;S do better research of their stories before you air them.&lt;/p&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Deborah- I live in a rural part of Missouri which has several corn based ethanol plants nearby. Your report failed to mention the fact that it takes 4 gallons of water to produce one gallon of ethanol. Many of the ethanol plants have had to cut back production because of this fact and one plant did not get started because the locals fought it due to the loss of ther water table. Ethanol production is a resource intensive product. Were you aware that there has been a $.77/gallon subsidy for the production of ethanol since 1977? Archer-Daniels-Midland is and has been producing ethanol for many years (<span class="caps">ADM</span> also contributes large sums of money to political campaigns). I would suggest that E&amp;S do better research of their stories before you air them.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

